----Original Message Follows---- Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 09:35:21 -0700 From: Panos Koutsoyannis Subject: What is the best character in melee? What is the best character you can start out with in Melee? Is there a best? Can it be proven? Or does it depend on who you play and what your opponent is like? I am talking about 1:1, fresh characters, standard melee. I found this guy to be the best. ST = 13 Dex = 11, Adj Dx (9) MA = 8 Leather - Stops 2, -2 MA, -2 Dx Small Shield - Stops 1. MorningStar (2 + 1) Halbird (2 - 1) - can use this depending on how you play pole weapons. >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------< ---Original Message Follows---- From: jh@metheny.brainiac.com (Joe Hartley) Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 19:36:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: What is the best character in melee? Panos Koutsoyannis wrote: > What is the best character you can start out with in Melee? > [ . . . ] > I found this guy to be the best. > > ST = 13 Dex = 11, Adj Dx (9) MA = 8 > Leather - Stops 2, -2 MA, -2 Dx Small Shield - Stops 1. > MorningStar (2 + 1) Halbird (2 - 1) This is very close to the character I usually started with: Aragorn (hey, give me a break - I got into all of this when I was 15, and discovered gaming and Tolkien at almost the same time!) ST = 12 DX = 12, AdjDX 9, 10 with shield slung back Broadsword "Anduril" 2 (used to be 2+1 since it's a magic sword :) Lg Shield - stops 2 Leather Armor - stops 2 It's very difficult to move more than a point or two away from ST=DX, since they're both so important. Either you get a character that can hit often but not do much damage, or you get a character that can do damage, but rarely hits (dwarves! I can _never_ get a dwarf to land the blow!). I've been running through DeathTest 2 solitaire-fashion lately to remember how to play; I've bought a number of MicroQuests lately, and wanted to "limber up" on something without a plot line first :) I found that I had to make adjustments to play a quest. I gave all non-magic characters starting ST & DX of 8, and split 8 more among them. For my magic user (Cheech Wizard), I started with 8 ST, DX and IQ, and added another 12 to be split. Poof - instant experienced characters! Going up against some of the baddies in DT2, I've needed them. I'm also awfully lenient about allowing strength to rebuild outside the rooms. I think that tendency comes from playing Bard's Tale and Black Crypt Ultima and the like, which allow for such replenishing with very little cost. In the solitaire mode, I lose a character now and then, but it's more an exercise in the mechanics than an enjoyable gaming experience, so I'm more lax. I'm glad to see this group enjoying a sudden revival in Melee/Wizard, which were the main games that got me here in the first place! >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------< ----Original Message Follows---- Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 21:17:35 -0600 From: daniel@jaws.greatwhite.com (Dan Tulloh) Panos Koutsoyannis writes: >> What is the best character you can start out with in Melee? >> [ . . . ] >> I found this guy to be the best. >> >> ST = 13 Dex = 11, Adj Dx (9) MA = 8 >> Leather - Stops 2, -2 MA, -2 Dx Small Shield - Stops 1. >> MorningStar (2 + 1) Halbird (2 - 1) Hmmmm....I suppose it doesnt hurt when you start out with a character that is illegal. (In case you are wondering, you are limited to two weapons and a shield counts as a weapon. You can, however, add a dagger for no cost.) Also, a Halberd is a two-handed weapon - the shield has to be slung across the back if that is your other weapon choice. Oh...according my rule set, the Halberd is a two-die weapon. Joe Hartley writes: >This is very close to the character I usually started with: > >Aragorn (hey, give me a break - I got into all of this when I was 15, > and discovered gaming and Tolkien at almost the same time!) >ST = 12 DX = 12, AdjDX 9, 10 with shield slung back >Broadsword "Anduril" 2 (used to be 2+1 since it's a magic sword :) >Lg Shield - stops 2 >Leather Armor - stops 2 A great many of my initial characters were based upon Tolkien too. That trend sort of went by the wayside after losing too many wizards named Gandalf. :) For a one-on-one beginners match, I personally preferred the ST:11, DX:13 option. There are a couple of ways to go with this: ST:11 DX:13(11) MA:8 longbow (1+2), shortsword (2-1) Leather Armor (stops 2) ST:11 DX:13(10)(11 with slung shield) MA:8 shortsword (2-1), Lg Shield (stops 2) Leather Armor (stops 2) Joe continues: >I found that I had to make adjustments to play a quest. I gave >all non-magic characters starting ST & DX of 8, and split 8 more >among them. This is a standard Melee character. (point total=24) >For my magic user (Cheech Wizard), I started with 8 ST, DX and >IQ, and added another 12 to be split. Poof - instant experienced >characters! Most of the Quests that I can remember usually suggested using experienced characters, especially in things like DeathTest or OrbQuest since these were considered to be all one single combat. GrailQuest suggested a minimum score of 38(!) (minimum of 8 for ST, DX and IQ) Dan >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------< ---Original Message Follows---- Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 23:25:10 -0700 From: Michael Anderson Two cool Melee characters: Joe the Elf ST 12 DX 12 MA 12 Longbow Broadsword You can stay away from your opponents, firing arrows. If they have no bows, they will never touch you. Joe the Dwarf ST 16 DX 6(0) MA 6 Battleaxe 3+1 OR Morningstar Hvy Crossbow Lrg Shield -2 Plate Armor Plate Armor -5 You'll do just fine in your little steel castle with a gazillion ST and lotsa plate and shield until you roll a 3, 4, or 5. Then your opponent leaks and lays down. >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------< ----Original Message Follows---- Date: 19 May 1998 08:43:08 U From: "Andrew Walters" Subject: Best Melee Character We played Melee everyday at lunch in Jr. High School, and we eventually = wound up with nearly everyone in the group playing ST: 11 DX: 13 (11) MA: 8 Spear 1+2 Long Bow 1+2 Leather Armor stops 2 hits This gives you decent standoff ability, and if you get your spear out = before they move adjacent you get the pole weapon = double-damage-against-charge bonus. Leather armor takes the edge off = hits. Damage is not awesome, but respectable, but the important things is = that you get hits! Remember DX % to hit 8 25.9% 9 37.5 10 50.0 11 61.6 12 71.3 You can see that a DX 11 fighter gets an enviable to-hit probability. Most people played this character every day, though there was usually a = rebel who went for a high strength, no armor character. The rebel always = bought it and one of these characters won. We ultimately decided we needed variety in our lives and outlawed this = character, thought a few people played variations, like the same thing = without the armor. I usually moved to high DX armored characters with = modest strength and weapons, trying to preserve the modified DX of 11, or = at least 10. Why give yourself less than a 50% chance to hit? I'm sure the scenario we played had a lot to do with the character design = - these were four to six way, every man for himself arena fights. If = five people get to go between your turns you want to be sure your hits = count. That armored dwarf would have gotten targetted by everyone (fear = of something new) and would never survive to take the twenty one swings he = needs to get a hit. The only serious problem this fighter faces vis-a-vis the others that have = been discussed is penetration/armor. The spear at 1+2 isn't too likely to = penetrate plate, and doesn't take too many hits off someone in chain. If = your opponents wear heavy armor you might want to trade the spear's pole = weapon bonus and high minimum damage for the 2-1 weapon available at ST:11 = (shortsword?), with its much higher maximum damage. The dwarf with the heavy metal gets a hit 4.6% of the time (if he can = close to hand weapon range, and you'd have to *let* him catch you), so = he's going to get one hit for every *thirteen* hits the DX11 fighter gets. = If he gets average damage he will not kill a ST: 11 fighter in leather in = one blow, so he has to take 13 more hits. Each hit from that spear does = an average of .5, so those 26 hits aren't enough to kill the dwarf - he = should have three HP left when his second blow lands, killing his opponent.= Of course, at that point each side has taken 42 swings, so there's about = an 80% chance that someone scored a critical hit by that time and ended it = early. Either fighter has an equal chance to get that critical hit, but = the dwarf's crit is more likely to end it all than the spear. I vaguelly recall a rule about losing consciousness or losing a turn or = something if you lose a very large portion of your hits in one turn, and = that could be a deciding factor - the dwarf's first hit has a 50% chance = of doing nine or more hit points in one blow, discounting critical hits... On the other hand, I think with a modified DX of 0 you can't stand or = walk, but that may be Advanced Melee. Of course, all this is from memory and I was twelve years old and these = were the first edition of the rules. I hope I can organize my life to fit = in a little melee via PBEM... >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------< ----Original Message Follows---- Date: 19 May 1998 09:02:38 U From: "Andrew Walters" You'll be happy to know that I remember less and will be writing a lot = less than I did for Melee. I am also far less sure that this is a good = character, it was just my favorite. But I was twelve (and thus always = used the female wizard counter). ST 10 DX 11 IQ 11 Weapon: Horsebow, dagger, whatever ST sword was available Armor: none Spells: Fire, Illusion, Summon Bear, whatever missle spell As you can see, when I roll 3d6 I like to be aiming for eleven or less, = whether its an IQ or DX roll. This gives you a very solid chance to hit, = and you can even take a shot with a negative modifier without it being a = longshot. Spells succeed, shots hit, illusions are disbelieved, things = *work* when you make your rolls. If you're missing half your rolls your = wasting half your turns. The result is a fairly low strength, so you have to go for economical = spells, ie illusions. I always took Summon Bear so that people wouldn't = know if it were a real one or not, and sometimes cast the more believable = Illusion of a Wolf. Fire's great if you can manuever to make it = worthwhile. Some people didn't have their wizards carry weapons, but when the game = winds down to two people and the board is wasteland of bodies, flaming = hexes, and scattered detritus and your strength and his are both down to = 2, nothing beats pulling out a bow and skewering them as they run at you = with a dagger. I seem to be arguing that this is a good character, but I remember having = more fun playing than winning consistently, and again this is six twelve = year olds with forty minutes to finish... Andrew Walters